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Old 04-11-2005, 12:19   #17
TraderABC
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishalshan
Nice post Tommyfx..

I have almost 2 years of forex exp now but still working hard to get the consistent profits.

When I started on Forex, I spent 2 whole months just to study the prospects and potentials of this field. Till I became completely satisfied that this is not another online casino game, I never touched any Forex book to study TA.
Once I got the complete faith, I never turned back. I gained this faith after doing careful research on my own and never buying other's view. That faith is growing day by day and keeps me working hard to reach the goal.

Shan

Shan, could you please tell us what you've studied? Because this (and practicing, I am tired reading 1000s of pages of TA/FA/Math) is one of my biggest concerns. Even when I am winning, I want to make sure that I am earning - not winning or being lucky.... I read too much of Nassim Taleb (Fooled by Randomness).....
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Old 04-11-2005, 13:47   #18
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderABC
Shan, could you please tell us what you've studied? Because this (and practicing, I am tired reading 1000s of pages of TA/FA/Math) is one of my biggest concerns. Even when I am winning, I want to make sure that I am earning - not winning or being lucky.... I read too much of Nassim Taleb (Fooled by Randomness).....

TraderABC,

I read tons of posts in this forum and similar forums to find the answer to my first question. Is FOREX a genuine game or one another gambling game. I was able to sense some reality and facts about this field from reading posts of some of the great traders here in this forum. Please take your time and browse thru this wonderful forum. You do your analytical reaseaning behind what they are telling. Don't just buy what they say. After lot of SELF ANALYSIS I came to the decision that this is not a gambling one if you handle it properly. Again, I won't advice you to take my words as it is. You have to do your home work on your own to convince yourself before putting all your energy into this. Unless you get the complete faith, it is very difficult to pass thru the different killing stages in this. Also, if after all your research you still are not convinced, please stop wasting your time in FOREX. Any effort without hard FAITH/BELIEF has very little chance of success.

This is one of the threads I rate good. Take a look to find out where you are.
http://www.moneytec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12879

Good luck my friend,
Shan
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Old 04-11-2005, 14:58   #19
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astro
Hi TraderABC,

You actually answered every question raised here in your first post without even noticing!

You gave the example with the alien learning to play CHESS.

"Chess" actually crossed my mind a few days ago while surfing traders forums and running into the same over-asked questions/facts (90% fail..., new system that works..., new indicator...).

Here is what I came up with, and if you give it a little thought, you'll see how everything suddenly becomes clearer:

TRADING = PLAYING CHESS.

(with one exception: in trading, only YOU can lose, not the other party)

This explains everyhing. I mean EVERYTHING!
You are playing against the "market". Who is the market? I don't know. I don't really care. Banks, brokers, whatever, doesn't really matter.

Let's say you are new to chess. You want to start learning.
You buy books with rules and strategies (they all look the same). You learn basic moves, advanced moves, more complex strategies. Everything is understood.
Now you start playing against Kasparov (in trading: "the market"). But he kicks your ass! So you play another game against him. He kicks your ass again! And again! And again! What's happened? I learned the rules, I learned strategies, how come he's beating me all the time?

So you switch on your computer and start surfing the web. You run into some new strategies and chess forums, where you ask more experienced players for advice. They show you where you went wrong and give you some more strategies.
From time to time you'll run into a new thread starting with the words: "New system was found". In this thread, a player will demonstrate how his system works (ie, "when the bishop is on A2 and the queen is on G7, move 6 steps to the left"). He will give you some nice examples where this strategy/system works. In just 2 days, the thread will contain around 100 posts of newbies jumping over the new winning system, trying to improve it a bit, but all of them sure that they have found the holy grail. Kasparov, watch out!
You are one of them. You write down the new strategy and challenge Kasparov to the battle. And, what a surprise, it works! You have taken down one of his pawns! And then another one. But then, in a flick of an eye, you get check mated again. Bummer.
So you go back to the forums and ask the experienced players, what happened? They explain. They say you need to practice. They say that the strategies work MOST of the times. They say you need to WAIT for the right situation in order to activate the strategy. They say YOU NEED TO PRACTICE!

90% of those who started to learn how to play chess have quit! Why?
Maybe they didn't like the game.
Maybe they lost so many times that they have decided to give up. Instead of learning from their mistakes, consulting more experienced players, practicing, practicing and PRACTICING, they decided that all the books written by world champs are the same and are used to fill the champs' pockets. They decided that the strategies don't work. They have found out that playing chess IS VERY VERY COMPLICATED AND REQUIRES CONSTANT TRAINING AND HARD DECIPLINE ACCOMPANIED BY LOSSES OVER LOSSES, FRUSTRATION AND A STRONG URGE TO QUIT.

The rest of the players who have made up their minds that they wanna become real chess players will continue practicing, learning, asking questions and one day they will know how to play chess.
They won't beat Kasparov, but they will cause his heart to miss a beat or two. They will have great moves followed by losses, but the winning moves will shade them.
Some of the players will be better from the others. Some will make a career out of it. Some will do it for the fun of it. One thing will be common to them: they are now chess players.

I think it's very easy to see the similarity to trading.

IMHO, as long as you understand this and willing to become a trader, you'll be one.

Astro.

Wow..excellent camparison..

Instead of accepting and acknowlegding our lack of knowlegde, skills and practice, we might end up calling Kasparov a BIG CHEAT.

There are chances of winning Kasparov when he is not active (like sleepy). Same way we have good chances of winning in FOREX when market is active (just opposite to Kasparov) and prices are trending fast like it happened today. It is damn difficult to win Kasparov when he is active. Same way in FOREX it is damn difficult to win when it is SLOBBING or INACTIVE. Most of the time, FOREX will be SLOBBING and that is why successful traders stand aside during that time.

Shan
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Old 04-11-2005, 15:40   #20
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Here is another question.

lets assume that you have an account with a US firm. Your equity is in US dollars. When your buy eur/usd pair, why doesn't your account receive Euro's? Or when you are working with a cross pair, why EVERY transaction is only recorded in US dollars (or whatever currency your account is in) ?

So much for exchanging currencies... This is bookmaker market???

After all it is a big hassle to constantly convert currencies, to do all the accounting and paper work... All the new anti-terror and laundering rules make it highly unlikely that your money goes outside of your broker.... How much would it take to wire 100,000 USD (1 stadard lot) to some other bank and back? Does the spread even cover it? If so, how do brokers profit??

Last edited by TraderABC : 04-11-2005 at 16:22.
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Old 04-11-2005, 16:23   #21
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderABC
Here is another question.

lets assume that you have an account with a US firm. Your equity is in US dollars. When your buy eur/usd pair, why doesn't your account receive Euro's? Or when you are working with a cross pair, why EVERY transaction is only recorded in US dollars (or whatever currency your account is in) ?

So much for exchanging currencies... This is bookmaker market???

After all it is a big hassle to constantly convert currencies, to do all the accounting and paper work... All the new anti-terror and laundering rules make it highly unlikely that your money goes outside of your broker....

Deal at a bank at it is not much different. Actually your broker is nice enough to convert your counter PNL for you. Most banks you have to handle these transactions.

Most brokers offer services that you can physically exchange money. All you need to do is go and set up accounts in every country whose currencies you are holding so can make debits/credits.
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Old 04-11-2005, 18:52   #22
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

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Originally Posted by Nonpiker
Deal at a bank at it is not much different. Actually your broker is nice enough to convert your counter PNL for you.
You mean convert euro or pound or whatever in USD? Due to leverage, how much paperwork, accounting, and legal stuff would have to be done to convert 100,000s of currency? Does a meager spread cover the time and the resources?

Quote:
Most banks you have to handle these transactions.
At what price?

Quote:
Most brokers offer services that you can physically exchange money. All you need to do is go and set up accounts in every country whose currencies you are holding so can make debits/credits.

But this isn't a standard procedure to open multiple accounts with diff currencies in diff countries. We are talking about ONE account. And which brokers can allow you to hold in multiple currencies? (Possibly Owanda is one of them?)


Still how much hassle is it to deal with 100,000s of dollars and legal stuff? How do brokers do it, especially for scalpers???!!!!

Last edited by TraderABC : 04-11-2005 at 18:55.
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Old 04-11-2005, 23:35   #23
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Check this post by Aleph Sigma Chi. Food for thought.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/show...t=17281&page=1
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Old 04-11-2005, 23:36   #24
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Re: Forex as a system... Who benefits? What internal rules exist in FX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishalshan
Hi TraderABC,

I had just put my view of thinking. I have no intention to confront you.

I would like to convey some of my points I mentioned earlier.

Again this is just my opinion...

Forex market is not manipulated and can't be manipulated if you are doing with genuine brokers. All news and major events influence the minds of traders to react but it is not guaranteed that the mass would react the same way for similar events. That is why Psychology plays a good role in trading.

All indicators developed show how the market is reacting for the recent events and it helps traders to decide whether it is the right time to enter or exit and to be on right side of the market.

I'm not experienced to answer all your questions and absolutely no offence intended.

Shan

Knock knock...
Wake up sir

Bed tea sir.
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