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[euroforex]

I've been trading for two years, after attending a Forex trading seminar that lasted two short days. What I've found, learned and experienced since then is this... any one who is just starting out to learn the basics should not pay more than $400 for a trading course...and that's only because you're lazy. Everything you need to know about forex trading is offered on the Internet. I find that most people don't take the time to 'read' what information is offered for free, but instead think that if they pay someone they'll get an edge on the market. Any of these trading programs that are worth their salt, are not worth the thousands of dollars they try to hook you in with... then add further costs for individual tutoring, etc. I've also discovered that lots of these trading schools are trolling for people with tons of cash to invest in their own managed fund accounts. So, the deal is that they make the training program a cash cow for their own investment funds... while you the novice continue to come up short early on, if not for a long time. I know people who have spent up towards $20,000 for training, but have yet to make profit on their trading strategies. I hope that the consumer forex spot market trader will drive the costs down over time by stop paying these high price tuitions. I hope that there will be more and more seasoned traders on these forums that will offer free assitance to novice traders, such as I've done over the last few months by setting up demo accounts to show the basic techniques through Instand Messaging. I feel that any program that is worth paying for, will provide you with some form of payoff at the end that will bring you the satisfaction needed to feel that you got an equitable investment of your time and money for some skillful knowledge, other than what you could download from any of the reputable forex trading web sites. I strongly urge you to boycott any forex trading programs that cost over a thousand dollars for the beginner that do not provide you with one-on-one training, included in the package deal. And I would hope that universities will someday provide an accredited academic course in forex spot trading. The thing is that you must learn what tools are there, then put together your own trading strategy that you feel comfortable with. Just as margin ratios have been regulated, the tuition costs of Forex Spot Market training needs to be regulated with a standard across the board curriculum. What I would like to see is a stair stepped program... where you have three levels to go through - Basic-Intermediate-Advanced with qualifiable quality assurance criteria. And each program is at least two weeks in duration or even up to three months. The other thing that is lacking for remedial training is a simulator program - much like a pilot training program. Everyone of us has a learning curve that takes time and patience to mature and this is the key to becoming a successful trader. Throwing thousands of dollars at some private trading program isn't the best way to learn to become a profitable trader, but it's the best way to make someone else rich. ricai

[peteuk]

Good post, very good post!

It's the carrot of 'quick riches' that attracts novice traders to these training programmes, sometimes after months of losses and desperation they are the last resort, it's a case of 'any port in a storm', and the more expensive the better!

Will regulation ever happen? I doubt it.

Boycott them is the best idea I've heard, unless it's a proven company with a proven track record and some satisfied clients.

Cheers
Pete

[JR97]

Great post.
I look at it this way.... Trading, be it Forex, equities, futures, baseball cards, whatever, is a lot like a strategic game. Football, chess, etc. In games that involve strategy, it's a long up-hill road to be successfull without some sort of blue print or strategy. And most succefull blue prints are succesfull after weeding out the un-successful blue prints. So why re-invent the wheel? You don't have to. In fact, it's very counter productive to do so. You can "buy" or find a system that someone else uses. Nothing wrong with that. However, I also think it's very important to understand why the unsuccefull strategies are unsuccesfull. I don't know if many systems for "sell" go into unsuccesfull explainations.

But strategy is only part of it. Execution is the other part. Knowing the intricacies of the Scicillain Dragon Variation Opening in chess doesn't do much good if you don't execute the moves at the right times. In chess that's called tactics. The principles of tactics can be taught, but proper execution can not. That seems to be the crucial element a lot of beginner traders don't understand. For instance, I found a system that uses indicators and ema crossings and all sorts of stuff that give buy/sell signals. And they are very good buy/sell signals. But those signals aren't any good if you get in late or get out too early/too late. That is where I see a mentoring program being very useful. I doubt you'll find any winning team in any sport that doesn't have a coach. Obviously being succesfull doesn't require a coach/mentor, but I see very few negatives for having one.

I personally think that it's great that there are programs/services available to learn trading. I also think it's B.S. that so many people rant against/critisize those that are looking for such programs and those that offer such programs. I mean hell... why dont' we critisize people for taking piano lessons? Or driving lessons. What about private flying lessons?

But I must agree with euroforex in saying that the basics are out there for free and the basics are not hard to find. I also think it's a good thing that evolution does eventually weed out those that can't cut it. If I can't cut it, then hopefully all the sooner that I learn that fact and move on.

[RBT1262]

EUROFOREX you came pretty close to hitting the nail on the head. I went thru my share of courses in the commodity markets. The ideas are all the same. I did however learn one thing.

If you don't have the mental make-up to disipline yourself to follow your rules, manage your money, and use a stop loss program to cut your losses, you are going to fail no matter what course you try.

Paper trading (also know as DEMO Trading here in the FOREX world) has it's place to try out different things; trading systems, price patterns, what ever, But it won't do you a bit of good if you aren't prepared to take a loss or set through draw-down.

I know an excellent trader in the commodity markets that has a guaranteed money making system that you can subscribe to and he/she will give you entry/exit signals. Problem is, there are no stops and some of the draw-downs were in the $500/$1000 range. That's tough to sit thru! I'll bet you've guessed who the subscribers are. Yep, new traders.

Ok, back to your post. The course peddlers prey on the new trader. That's called good marketing. I don't agree with it but it's done on just about every thing in the world. Ever sit thru an informercial on TV? Same idea. Impress the eager and grab their money.

I don't think there is a way to stomp out the crummy courses. All new traders, and more than a few experienced ones, are looking for the holy grail of trading.

Well this is the real world and I ain't giving up my holy grail.

Keep the good thoughts
Good trading
Dick.

[OldSeaDog]

Trading Forex is like trading anything else: equities, commodities, futures, baseball cards. If you don't know what you are doing you are going to get taken for a ride. The only alternative to going for an unplanned ride is education; and even that is no guarantee.

You must educate yourself. You must do research. You should be buying (and reading) all the books you can get your hands on. You should be researching on the internet, and attending seminars, and yes, organised classes from trading schools. If you want to be a professional you need education.

I read a statistic that said over 80% of all traders have less than one weeks training after 3 years in the market. What I find surprising about that statistic is that they are still in the market after 3 years with no formal training. You wouldn't consult a doctor, lawyer, or structural engineer that had no training, and you sure wouldn't want to be operated on or defended by a doctor or lawyer who was self taught! Would you live in a high rise building that was designed by a self taught engineer?

So why treat your savings/investments/capital any differently? You owe it to yourself and to your retirement to get the absolute best (and most) training you can afford. Never stop learning!

Now that having been said, there are a lot of fly-by-night scam artists out there just waiting to separate the newbies from their money. My advice would be not to bypass the courses and the training, but to research the schools, the trainers and the courses to make sure they are on the up and up, and deliver the results you are paying for. Look for money back guarantees and satisfied customers you can talk to.

You owe it to yourself to get educated.

If you think education is expensive - try ignorance!

[DAT]

This thread is probably the best one I have ever read here on Moneytec and I have read many. I wish I could hijack some of what was said here.

I have often told propective clients exactly what has been said here but they want that 'holy grail'. Some of them think they will make 'millions' in a day because some guy sold them his 'system'.

I do however disagree slightly with the idea that a trader cannot be self taught and be good. Becoming a good trader takes practice, a substantial amount of patience and some old fashioned luck. I know many trader who have not gone to any courses but have read and studied market movements over the years and just seem to have a 'knack' for lack of a better word for trading and I'm talking across the board.

Anyway I just want to say keep the good stuff coming guys.

I hope many of the novice traders will read this thread and take it to heart.

[euroforex]

as an amendment... i want to clarify that i'm not against education for forex trading... in fact i'm very much in favor of education and believe you must go through this process to become a good trader... it's just that what is offered is not meeting my standards of qualifying as a really reliable trading course of study.... the majority of these programs give you lots of information... but don't provide you with on hands trading experience... unless you're willing to pay lots of money to them... which i feel is just another scam... i've just found there are a lot of smoke and mirrors in this area... and would like to see a better approach to training criteria... having said that... who knows what is best... but for the novice... i'd highly recommend you being very careful... as i've found that most attention is given to those clients who have deep pockets... so if you're not a deep pocket potential... i won't be surprise if you're ignored...