The learning cycle for a newbie trader

[txtrader]

and why am I not in phase 3? I've realized all you stated in phase 1 & 2 - what's keeping me from being phase 3? what am I missing? ???

[txtrader]

and I don't mean to be a sa, but where do I go from here? I know I don't know - but I'm willing to learn, but my personality being what it is doesn't allow for your prediction of 2007 - yes, it's a slow process, yes, it's a learning curve, but some of us, as posted, don't necessarily need the 2+ years to realize we don't know, and we have to slow down. But not all of us need 12 - 18 months to learn to do something that will help us in the long run. We learn quickly from our mistakes, and are more than willing (sometimes to our detriment) to listen to "those who know".

[Atomised]

Txtrader

I can see how Soul reckons your not at stage 3 yet. You've contradicted yourself by saying it's a slow learning curve but yet your convinced your one of the ones who doesn't need the 2.5 yrs to learn. You also say : and are more than willing (sometimes to our detriment) to listen to "those who know". Surely this means your not listening to the right people ? Maybe I've read your post wrong but i'm getting the impression you think you already know what you need to know when you don't. If you can't take someone else's comments, maybe your not cut out for trading. At the end of the day you decide whether you make it as a trader or not, but sure what do i know i've just about got to stage 3 after 3 yrs. Maybe you should try reading Market Wizards ?

[txtrader]

Oh, no, I'm more than willing to listen, I just lack the patience to be 2.5 - 3 years from being in phase 3. A year - 18 months? If that's what it takes, so be it, and I'm willing to wait - - but do I want to? no - - - do I have to? probably.

What I do understand is that I'm a long way from making this a real way of making a living.

As to listening to the "right people", I haven't found any "people" to listen to other than here - books, yes, internet sites, yes, but someone who's done this for a while, no. And that's what I'm looking for.

I don't discount anyone' s advice - they've already gained knowledge. What I will discount, and say that each and everyone one of us should realize, is that we all have different learning curves and different realization points, and should work with those as well as what we learn from those who've 'been there, done that'.

What I don't want is someone to discourage me from persuring this as I'm being discouraged closer to home.

I'm no expert, won't be for a long time yet, but won't let someone else tell me I don't know what I know. So maybe this isn't the right forum for me to be involved in.

[ashoksagar]

A perfect example of how a superb and potentially helpful thread can degenerate into personal bickering and ego bashing.

[Atomised]

I dunno - you post something that might be interesting and the flamers come out

No no no no don't stop Soul, you've been a great help to me for one and i'm sure there's others that wouldn't still be trading if they didn't take on board your advice and tips !! Hope that head of yours ain't getting bigger now is it?

Tx

Didn't mean to discourage you or anything believe it or not i hope you make it. But a big part of trading is patience, i.e. waiting for the right move to come and staying out until it comes. Now if you can't wait the 2 or 3 yrs to become a trader then maybe you should rethink your whole philosophy ? Sure Elder says it takes 7 yrs to become a successful trader !

[txtrader]

Whoa! #1 - wouldn't want someone who has as much knowledge as Soul Trader 2004 to not share - #2 - don't have much ego when it comes to this because I know nothing! and am willing to admit it. It's not personal bickering, but my way of asking for more than what's been offered in previous threads. If there's nothing more, say so, and I'll go. But I want to know more - therefore the continuation of this thread, even if it seems to be arguementative. It's not meant to be, I just want help from those who've been there, done that. If this isn't the right forum, then let me know.

And I just don't want my success to be 3 - 7 years down the road. I'm not looking for the get rich quick scheme - I just don't want it to take that long - but if that's what it takes, ....

So I'm still in Phase 2 even if I think I'm in stage 3 - I can accept that,even if I don't want to - I do listen and I do take advice when it's offered, but seriously - and I do mean this as a serious question - does it really take 3 - 7 years to show a consistent profit when FX trading? I don't mean huge, but consistent - If that's the honest answer, then I know more right now than I knew at the beginning of this thread.

That is the type of questions that I have that I haven't been able to find on any of the internet sites, books, etc. I'm really looking for someone to set me straight and if this thread has started that, fine....all I can say is HELP!

Soul Trader 2004, you stated - "TX trader - you can't possibly go from stage one to stage 3 in 3 weeks - probarbly wont see you in 2007 then." Again, why not? what am I missing? Can you - or anyone else - go into more detail as to what I'm not seeing? I really do want to be a success at this - no matter the term, but as you state - if I don't know what I don't know, then I'm more than stuck in the mud, I'm sinking. Will you please shed more light? I'm asking because I want to understand a bit more in-depth answer to your initial posting. 1) I don't know what I don't know, 2) I know what I don't know 3) moment of enlightenmet that I have a long way to go 4) using the method that I finally develop as my own as I counciously think about what I'm doing 5) being able to say "I'm a trader". Did I misinterpret your entire initial thread?

You also stated that you've been a trainer for 15 years. Where? where can I find a trainer that will help me learn the ins and outs to be a success?

[bobnat]

Txtrader,

There is a concept in learning called scaffolding. It functions just like the actual scaffolds used in construction. You can read lots of things about trading in a relatively short period of time, but you won't learn them when you read them. You may think that because you can remember them that you have learned them. Not true. I've seen it in language learning over and over again. Something you read today won't be of any use to you until you have a better foundation under it. It may be two years from now, but you'll say, "aha", now I understand what that means. So, you need to put the pieces in place, one by one. Each piece needs to be securely in place, or in actuality, truly learned and assimilated. This takes a long time.

In trading there are two components. The first is the technical side. It's probably the easiest of the two, but it takes a lot of practice and that practice takes time. It can be indefinitely prolonged by jumping from system to system. The best thing to do is to learn one system (or a set of systems emanating from the same basic principles of a larger system) thoroughly. However, just getting to the point where one realizes the necessity of this takes time.

The second component is the learning about yourself. There is no guarantee that this will ever be learned. I suspect a lot of folks go broke before they do so. It takes a long time to come to grips with how one really thinks, what one believes and values, and how they act upon those things. It's a grueling process with many detours and delays.

Putting the two together takes much longer than one can imagine. Now, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people who try trading think that they are above average. They've had success in their life doing other things they deem to have been difficult. They figure they can just apply those qualities that brought them success in the past onto trading. It's just not that simple.

For starters, half the people in the world are below average. Yet, if you were to poll a thousand people at random, how many people would rate themselves as such? Now this is not a knock at those people. It's simply to point out the mind games we play with ourselves. Humans tend to delude themselves regularly. I'm the first to agree that there are benefits to doing so. But that same type of thinking doesn't work in trading.

There are very few professions in the world that require one to strive for self-actualization in order to achieve success in said profession. Trading is certainly one of them.

I'm also sure that many of us here have believed that we also could jump ahead of the learning curve. I'm certainly guilty of that. Yet, I've found that it's taking longer than I anticipated, but not longer than what everyone who has done it has said it would take.

Now, this is not to say that you won't be a trading wunderkind. It just very well may happen. But seeing as trading is all about probabilities, I'd say the probability of you beating the learning curve is not a bet I would want to take.

Finally, think of it this way. If you do succeed at trading and it does take you 4-7 years, so what? Any thing worth doing takes time. I spent 10 years going to college to get the job I wanted. Think of any profession you want and point out how many of them can be learned in 1 or 2 years. Once I finished my education it took me years to work up the position I wanted, just like any profession requires. But, just like my profession now, I can do it for the rest of my life. The same is true for trading. If you succeed at it, it's yours for the rest of your life. You'll be able to make a living at it for 20-30 years. But you're going to have do it the old-fashioned way....earn it. That takes time.

Nat