No set stops

[zuijlen]

Originally Posted by mishak

Here, here
My vote is with these guys - adding to their reputations.

Truville, you are in minority in this mini-poll.

That puts Truville probably in the 5% that is successful!

I couldn't trade that way but I admire his courage...

[MickMason]

Originally Posted by Truville

I absolutely knew that the Euro would turn around, and it did.

This isn’t cable we are talking about. If I was long cable, I would have taken the loss

I think that is what differentiates good traders from great.

Naive at best.....

Truville, what seperates good traders from losers is limiting risk, accepting loss, and understanding the market and how to trade it safely, it seems from what you think and write you have none of those assets......no offence intended!


Mick

[Truville]

How could I possibly take offense at that? Look, what I am saying is that it simply does not make sense to me to stampede like a scared cow simply because all the other cows are doing it.

Cable going short was a natural and understandable consequence to the news. But was Euro going long? Does that make as much sense to you?

Let me turn it around for everyone here, and see if "stick to the plan, no matter what" still holds true.

You short cable two hours before the bombing. You look to make 30 pips, and risk 15. Suddenly, cable drops like a stone! It keeps dropping, going down and down. Obviously, some news event is really making this baby move.

Here is the question: Do you still take your original 30, or do move your limit to take advantage of the situation? If you would move your limit on this unique event, how is that any different than moving your stop on a unique event?

To me, looking past the rigidity of your system, to see what the market is doing- is the difference between someone who trades the market, and someone who trades a system.

If you think an excellent trader is some kind of robot that takes the input "Euro over 2000" and outputs "must close at loss", well, I'd call that much more naive.

[MickMason]

Originally Posted by Truville

Cable going short was a natural and understandable consequence to the news. But was Euro going long? Does that make as much sense to you?

Yes, perfect sense. Traders were selling sterling and selling dollars, the result: weak sterling, weak dollar, strong Swissy.

Originally Posted by Truville

Let me turn it around for everyone here, and see if "stick to the plan, no matter what" still holds true.
You short cable two hours before the bombing. You look to make 30 pips, and risk 15. Suddenly, cable drops like a stone! It keeps dropping, going down and down. Obviously, some news event is really making this baby move.
Here is the question: Do you still take your original 30, or do move your limit to take advantage of the situation? If you would move your limit on this unique event, how is that any different than moving your stop on a unique event?

Isn't the answer obvious? The difference between letting profits run and letting losses run, one makes you money the other is.....well just plain foolish in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Truville

To me, looking past the rigidity of your system, to see what the market is doing- is the difference between someone who trades the market, and someone who trades a system.

If you think an excellent trader is some kind of robot that takes the input "Euro over 2000" and outputs "must close at loss", well, I'd call that much more naive.

Ummm, it's called risk management. Sure you can look to see what the market is doing, sure you can use discretion, but an open-ended risk is neither, it's just a hope and a prayer.

Have another look at your trade and see how lucky you were. So you think Eur/Usd is just spiking, traders acting in blind panic, but you admit you didn't know what traders were trading. The fundamental reason for the spike was the explosions in London, we now know that, but look at the situation logically. In the past we have seen, from bitter experience, that these sorts of attacks are well choreographed, your spike could have turned into a sustained dumping of dollars had there been further attacks across the world, especially as there were an awful lot of long dollar positions in the market. By the time you realise you're in trouble your positions have moved so far into the negative you're in serious trouble. Going on from that, suppose trading had been ceased, what then? Your next opportunity to close may not have come without a very big gap.

By doing what you did you are leaving an awful lot to chance and luck, that's not the most sensible way to trade......in my opinion.


Mick

[Truville]

I respect your opinion, always have. But one thing you said disturbs me.

"Suppose trading had been stopped".

Well, "suppose" the moon blew up. Suppose Atlantis rises again from the sea. Suppose a lot of things.

But here is another more likely scenario. Suppose the bombers take a short ferry ride, and bomb Paris? That is just as likely to happen as additional bombing of America. And that was a little in my mind when I decided to keep my short Euro. As long as we are supposing, why is that any less likely?

Another thing. It's odd to me, your perspective on discretion. You have discretion in trade selection, discretion in limits, but that discretion comes to a screeching halt at stops? Everything else can be tinkered with, but stops are not to be touched, ever? Just seems a bit odd to me.

[pqt]

I think we should stop arguing this point for argument sake.
Personnally, I seldom use stops and I've suffered dire consequences bcoz of it.But I think each trader is entitled to trade the way he feels the most comfortable with, as long as he assumes total responsibility for his action and knows how to learn from it.
Peace.