Is there such a thing as profitable signals provider?

[UncleJesse]

That was my gut reaction as well Foamgod.

I think the argument that people with good signals do not want to sell them in fear that the market will change unfavorably based on their signals is a weak one.

Many people who have good systems are doing quite well for themselves and dont want to be hassled with setting up a signal service, dealing with customer support and all the other stuff which comes with it.

I would just share them with a few friends and keep on living the good life

[foamgod]

Right, it's either the hassle/inconvenience OR they are not sure consistency could be maintained in the long term.

[ddtrade]

Originally Posted by foamgod

If your account is large enough, your taking of position will move the market right? E.g. if I sell EUR/USD, the price will drop. So say there are many people using the same signal service that says to go short at 1.1500. So suddenly at around the same time, everyone will start selling. This in itself already results in a price plunge.

Now there are OTHER people who are not using the signal service. But they see a sudden drop in price and they wonder what happens -- so some might decide to quickly sell in order to catch the wave. Then a while later, the more cautious ones decide that it is indeed safe to follow the trend to go short. So they sell as well. By this time, this group of people may already be too late -- BUT note that for those subscribed to the signal service, they might have already reached their planned profit target.

Thus I say, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And this will only come to pass when there are enough people participating. And of course, we are talking about "enough" of their combined financial muscle.

yes yes at that point exactly when trend gets strong and more more participants enter. but the question is the system we use , at which point of the trend it gives signal.

tha main thing was , is the efficency of a system declines when the users of that system increse?

well i dont know yet ! do you have any other suggestions or idea or whatever?

[reflections]

Originally Posted by traderkay

Have you been subscribing and trading signals of some service provider which made you a good profit over a significant period of time, ie. a year, 2 years, etc.? Share your experience. No need to mention provider's name.

check out http://www.createphpbb.com/phpbb/ind...forum=fxreview for pull no punches reviews (no association with me).

I personally use Stormy Forex (stormyforex.com) and fx analytics (fxan.com) with live money.

Best thing I can tell you is ask them what their max drawdown is and trade with 4x that in your account. This will allow you to weather 2x their max drawdown and still have 1/2 your account. Do not violate this rule. Increase lot sizes in proportion to increases in your cash only, if you make 10% then increase your lot size by 10% only (not 20%).

Be realistic. If a provider average 900 PIPs a month their drawdown could be 7-900 PIPs at times. Can you deal with that?

[pixius]

The markets are not efficient, this fact alone is what makes them move. If everyone bought at a certain place then the price would ultimately stop moving as the result would be an equilibiurm.There would be no one to push the value higher or lower, since everyone agreed that the price was fair. If everyone were to trade the same system the markets would still move because we are humans and that fact means that we will all react differently presented the same situation. I may like a 20 pip profit you may want 100; so trading the same system yes we wil both get the same result(a winner) but our needs and wants will govern where we react.
I also do not agree with signals providers losing consitency etc. We are in the business of managing funds, we also provide signals based purely on performance. We are consistent but we dont buy into the myth of millions overnight. The market is run on leverage and many times it is the leverage of an individual that results in their demise. Regardless of if you are a professional or amature the result that you should be seeking is sustained growth over an extended period of time. The assumption that it is quite a bit of work to provide a signal service is correct. However the primary reason we do it and many others is the same reason we all trade...MORE MONEY. If you are a successful trader, why not just open a chat room and provide the signals in addition to your own trading. Multi tasking in this way can create more profits which is the reason we are all here. In addition there will always be people who just are not cut out to trade, or dont want the headaches yet want the benefits of this market. It is precisely these individuals that services are marketed at.
Finding a good service is not that hard if you look under the surface. If they wont allow you to pay only for the results after a profit has been achieved, THEN MOVE ON. The hedge fund industry was built on the premise of no gain no payments. Honest services will do the same. They know that if they perform they will keep their clients. They risk nothing since they are trading anyway and the costs to operate a site are very minimal. Those who charge monthly fee's are probably in it for the short term and looking for a way to fund their own accounts.
The free (insert number) day trials should also be avoided, past results can be doctored and do not represent future gains. The last 2 weeks one could hardly go wrong entering dollar long postions. This would have resulted in nice profits, for any service yet this week it became much harder as end of the month squaring combined with the dog days of august upon us and some signifigant tech levels approaching, resulted in dollar sell offs. So that same profit you had last week may now be gone, yet the service has the monthly fee.
If a service loses 100 pips and tyou paid $200.00 for that service you now lost 120 pips on a 1 lot account. The service has not lost a thing and can continue to charge you as long as you allow them. You are right that many traders can't afford the draw downs. In fact most will hold on thinking the service wouldn't be in business if they were not good. They hold out waiting for that winner that will bail them out. Some will even double up and risk more thinking that because the past results were so great they are bound to hit the big one next time. They fail to leave the service untill the account is beyond repair. They in the end lose more then their money they lose their confidence and self esteem. Trading is a profession like any profession it takes dedication and resolve. The Forex market is the great gold rush of our time. Problem is most are finding fools gold.

Pixius
I did not mean to offend anyone with my statements.

[foamgod]

Originally Posted by ddtrade

yes yes at that point exactly when trend gets strong and more more participants enter. but the question is the system we use , at which point of the trend it gives signal.

tha main thing was , is the efficency of a system declines when the users of that system increse?

well i dont know yet ! do you have any other suggestions or idea or whatever?

Hard to discuss efficiency of a system when we are talking about a blackbox, and one that's hypothetical! :P

[ddtrade]

Originally Posted by foamgod

Hard to discuss efficiency of a system when we are talking about a blackbox, and one that's hypothetical! :P

i agree ...

[traderkay]

So... what has been your real money results with these two services? How long you traded with them and list profits drawdowns in pips.

Originally Posted by reflections

check out http://www.createphpbb.com/phpbb/ind...forum=fxreview for pull no punches reviews (no association with me).

I personally use Stormy Forex (stormyforex.com) and fx analytics (fxan.com) with live money.

Best thing I can tell you is ask them what their max drawdown is and trade with 4x that in your account. This will allow you to weather 2x their max drawdown and still have 1/2 your account. Do not violate this rule. Increase lot sizes in proportion to increases in your cash only, if you make 10% then increase your lot size by 10% only (not 20%).

Be realistic. If a provider average 900 PIPs a month their drawdown could be 7-900 PIPs at times. Can you deal with that?