Still too many are reporting profits?

[Hawkeye]

With 79 members taking the poll 68% now say they are making money trading forex, down from the 81% earlier who said the same thing when 49 members took the poll.

Still, the being a zero sum game, either we have a brilliant lot here, or those losing are not taking the poll. As one member pointed out, I think correctly, members here could well be taking the poll with their expectation or hope of their performance rather than their actual performance.

68% of the people making money from the remaining 32%? There wouldn't be enough money to go round!

[barrowboy]

Hawkeye,
are you saying that hardly anybody on these forums is making money, because if that's the case, what the frig are we all doing on here? I came on here to try and get ideas on how to trade properly, to make money, not to lose all of my money without ANY chance at all....

[Marty]

Through my experience of having handled customer related FX business at banks and brokers, the majority of private individuals lose money when trading FX

Why ? well there are too many reason to speak of now but one main reason is stop losess. Moving them, putting them too close in a whipsaw market and finally not wanting to put one in at all

I must admit I am sceptical of people returning 75-150+%
returns, its just doesnt happen in the real world, it might in paper trading.

Marty

[Yoda]

You are so right, Marty.

Stop losses are one of the most difficult things to master in trading.

Personally I set mine around the main support/resistance levels.

Is anyone willing to share how they set their stop losses. Perhaps the Trade Consultant?

[Hawkeye]

Originally posted by barrowboy
Hawkeye,
are you saying that hardly anybody on these forums is making money, because if that's the case, what the frig are we all doing on here? I came on here to try and get ideas on how to trade properly, to make money, not to lose all of my money without ANY chance at all....

barrowboy,
We are here to learn from each other by exchanging ideas, I guess.

Only 10% of traders make money consistently, this is proven in studies. The fact that we join forums like this would mean that more than 10% here are making money trading, because most of the other traders just grope in the dark, and blow their accounts over and over, having no clue as to how to trade and what to do. Here at least we aretrying to learn, and that's important. But I doubt 68% here are making money consistently from trading.

Let's face it, trading is difficult, time-consuming, and complex. It is a very demanding task physically, psychologically and financially. It requires a very disciplined mind and a proven methodology, and research and learnoing must go on. Remember the 3 M's of successful trading: Mind, Method, and Money management.

But that doesn't mean it is not possible to make money trading, just that it is not as easy as many people or websites would make you believe.

A novice trader may experience beginners' luck, and go on to unjustified exhuberance thinking he is invincible, and then the market will humble him.

The committed trader willing to learn to apply the 3 M's of trading will probably find that one day he is starting to make it, and the rewards will be most satisfying. Not everybody has what it takes, though. It takes a great deal of commitment and effort, but this is the most suitable, satisfying and rewarding career, for me at least.

[BigMacDollar]

Guys, the answers to this question is as simple as it is complicated. Let me try to give a few reasons why, then maybe you can realise what you have to work against.

First of all - so who the hell am I that I can speak . . . .

I have up to recently personally trained 1239 traders in the basics of trading. At some stage the training became too demanding on my time, and handed over the trader-base to two of my best traders and allowed myself to focus on a group of live traders who committed themselved to my disciplines and trading systems for mentorship. I have in the process seen over 600 of these traders go throught he processes of victory and defeat. During this time I used my skills in Human Behaviour Science and Psychology to study and monitor the traders as they go through the various stages of development, constantly looking for ways to increase the success-rates of these traders.

Doing this I have come to a few of many explanations and conclusions on why traders sometime make it and sometimes not. Please remember that in listing but a few of these reasons, that this list does not condemn one to failure, but should lead one to understand what it takes to preserve capital, and in the odd occasion make a fortune.

I do not believe that there is any reason someone cannot make a lot of money in this market. I have seen 13 and 14 year-olds come and do training with me, take a $ 3 000 account and double it consistently for a while until they become rocket scientists, just to loose it all. Then they come back for further training, I force them to subscribe to a simple discipline, see them go away and again go through the process of making good money. Then - they go into rocket scence again just to loose it all - again . . .

Essentially, it is not about understanding the market, or about being special in some or other way that will make you a successful trader. Anyone has the potential to be successful. The question is - then why does 90% of traders that had exactly the same training as the winning 10%, using the same trading systems, methodologies and tools, not make it?

It is a question of being . . . Who are you, and how do you respond to any given market movement.

Explain something to me - I teach a few simple trading systems. I then also spend a lot of time teaching the Psychology and Disciplines of trading. By the time the traders leave the classroom to trade, all of them have exactly the same training and information allowing them to trade. Then I send them out with a simple instruction. Go and trade only when you see the occurrance of a certain set of signals. Nothing else. The group will leave and all go and only trade the signals I ask for. A month later they would come back to me with more or less the same results. Now everybody is all fired up and ready to go live. Then you draw them into a classroom for a week to trade the same trading system live for the first time. After a week of trading under supervision they again get more and more excited.

Then you send them home to trade on their own. Immediately they fall into one of two groups, 90% that fails, and looses their money, and 10% that makes it. Why is that.

Investigation through a process of mentorship will show you that those that loose money altered the Trading Discipline and System. They became rocket scientists going through various processes of research and investigation to try and find that one indicator that would make the trading system more successfull, cut the losses shorter etc. etc. Sadly, before they realise, they have depleated their trading capital and has lost faith in their ability to trade.

There was a time when I was severely critisized for the fact that so many traders seem to loose money. To prove the point I invited 30 of these tradres to come and trade with me for a month in a training centre. I spend 3 days, de-briefing them, getting rid of everyone's annoying need to introduce a new winning Indicator to my tools. Once we had consensus on the trading system, I had everyone run the trading system for 3 days on demo, just to grow confidence levels in the system. Then, we spend 2 days developing the environmental disciplines in maintaining a disciplined trading environment where all signals are caught. And then we went live, each trader making his own trading decisions. We doubled all active accounts within 15 days.

We did not allow anyone to discuss any other trading methodologies and systems. We did not allow the infiltration of fundamentals or trading calls on the internet. We only traded the simple system.

Then I sent them home - those that maintained the discipline still trade well today. Those that didn't - either stopped or are still battling for survival as we speak.

The answer is as simple as it is complicated. There are a few individuals that Psycologically and mentally have the ability to subscribe to a simple trading discipline. They can maintain that discipline, and structure their trading environment in such a way that their trading disciplines remain intact. This breeds a certain familiarity with specific market conditions that suddenly make them one with the market. They feel the thrust when it happens, they understand the dangers and they know how to react - this only comes with time as one trades the market with a consistent and constant discipline.

There are many other contributing factors like poor money management, risk control and even some profiles that are simply to careless and daring in their approach to ever make it in the market. I have also found many traders that trade without ever having done training with a reputable and professional organisation. They unfortunately add to the great number of traders that fail, and then blame the market.

The fact remains - I always say - if I can only get traders to settle down and buckle down I can get them to make money. There is no such thing as a loosing trader - only inconsistent, rebellious and reckless ones . . . .

[Hawkeye]

Very well said, BMD! That's about it, you just about hit it right on the head there.

Do you still train traders? Please provide details of your curriculum. I think MoneyTec won't mind you "advertising" your services here.

For the 3M's of successful trading, Mind comes first. Discipline includes sticking to the plan. Methondology comes second; that's a plan, a method, because you won't plan to fail you just fail to plan! Money Management is last, but important nonetheless, because a conservative method will preserve your capital, but the returns will be low. Risking too much may eventually leave you with nothing left to fight another day.

In short, it is possible to trade profitably, especially in the forex arena where the costs are so low compared with stocks and futures. And the starting capital can be so minimal too.

[griffin]

I'm reading this thread with interest because I am a new trader hoping to succeed, and any clue as to why some novices lose their money is helpful (even though I do feel sorry for them).

Just a thought...

It seems a lot of beginners start off making money, not an awful lot of it, but a gain nevertheless. Then something happens and their gains go down the drain swiftly followed by their capital. Do you think it could be complacency and the belief they are invincible after having 'beaten' the market a few times and made some money? Or perhaps it could be once they are familiar with the basic methods of trading they go in search of additional tools to help them predict movement, tools they are unfamiliar with or perhaps don't fully understand and misinterpret the signals these tools give?

I may be way off track here, but then I *am* a beginner :-)