Trading In The Zone and The Holy Grail - Page 6

Smurf · 27-12-2004, 13:07

Dear autofx

This is nonsense on so many levels, it's hard to figure out where to start. Let's just randomly pick out one thing.

No, computerized or mechanical trading do not take the emotion out of trading for one particular reason (one that you have never adressed in your many, many posts on the subject). You're still left to wonder whether your system works and if you should trust it.

For example, let's say I had believed you back when your system was a double-smoothed MACD thing. Once the losses began to pile up, don't you think that my ever increasing sense of being cheated and my anxiety of seeing hard-earned cash going down the drain would have triggered emotions? Don't you think that I would have been enraged by the fact that you suddenly changed your system after having touted its virtues in post after post?

Is anybody dumb enough to believe that mechanical systems will take the emotion out of trading, when it becomes evident that you're losing, losing and then losing some more? My plane is crashing ... oh, horror! No, wait. It's on auto-pilot. Pheew. This should make my horrible death completely emotionless and kind of nice. I was worried for a moment there.

Cheers,

Smurf

autofx · 27-12-2004, 14:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Smurf
Dear autofx

This is nonsense on so many levels, it's hard to figure out where to start. Let's just randomly pick out one thing.

No, computerized or mechanical trading do not take the emotion out of trading for one particular reason (one that you have never adressed in your many, many posts on the subject). You're still left to wonder whether your system works and if you should trust it.
.
.
.
Is anybody dumb enough to believe that mechanical systems will take the emotion out of trading, when it becomes evident that you're losing, losing and then losing some more? My plane is crashing ... oh, horror! No, wait. It's on auto-pilot. Pheew. This should make my horrible death completely emotionless and kind of nice. I was worried for a moment there.

Any reasonable person will see it's you spewing the nonsense.

The mechanical (computerized) system does the trading, not you.

The trading decisions and actions are NOT based on emotions.

YOU are still free to feel emotions, yes. But that is different from
the trading being based on emotion.

If you haven't the tools to know how to construct a good system,
then you WILL see your strategies lose and lose some more.
That's a whole separate issue.

Smurf · 27-12-2004, 14:33

Quote:

Any reasonable person will see it's you spewing the nonsense. The mechanical (computerized) system does the trading, not you.

Quote:

The trading decisions and actions are NOT based on emotions.

There're only these two options? You either use computerised trading or you trade on emotions? This is horrible news for all fundamental traders as well as anybody believing that trading is too complex to leave to a computer program fed with a smoothed MACD in one time frame.

Quote:

YOU are still free to feel emotions, yes. But that is different from the trading being based on emotion.

This distinction rests on the erroneous assumption above. It still doesn't answer the question of how you're supposed to differentiate between emotions about a particular trade you took, and the emotions you experience concerning whether or not your system actually works. You may feel doubt or fear about your trading philosophy, your computerised system or a single trade. The emotions are the same as are the losses / profits.

Quote:

If you haven't the tools to know how to construct a good system, then you WILL see your strategies lose and lose some more. That's a whole separate issue.

Not so for people who pay you for your losing and ever changing systems. Very profound, though.

Cheers,

Smurf

comenow · 27-12-2004, 16:24

I have a rule of thumb about following advice or even listening to one:those who are exceptionally good at what they do are the best to lisen to. I assume that people here must have read Market Wizards and the New Market Wizards. There are top traders in there who traded, and still trade, mechanically. I would sooner listen to Ed Seykota, et al, than anyone else here. It is important to me to be enetertained and that is the sole reason i read all this stuff. U know there is the guy who makes 1000 pips a day, there is Mick the genius who thinks that he is the best trader since Jesse Livermore, etc. It is all a nice fun and games. I find all the negativity amazing. With all that ego, no one is gonna be a successful trader.

RealFX · 27-12-2004, 16:38

I just want to say that my post about AI in no way was meant to slam system traders. I have seen how computers revolutionize industries and trading is probably no different. This site probably attracts more system traders because it is after all on the interent. That said, we all have our own path and maybe theres room for both.

Hell why not use/learn from them both? I am..

comenow · 27-12-2004, 17:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Handle
Add My personal experience:

1. Trading a demo account is a waste of mental capital - you cannot compare with the real thing, and you definitely trade differently - no matter what anybody tells you - the human mind is a very disruptive thing.

2. Put aside $10 000 and expect to lose it all - but do not risk more than 5% of that on any one trade - once you have a system that you trust, look at your total capital, and NEVER risk more than 1%.

3. Good luck

My beef is with point 2. Why expect to lose 10,000?

autofx · 27-12-2004, 19:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Smurf

There're only these two options? You either use computerised trading or you trade on emotions? This is horrible news for all fundamental traders as well as anybody believing that trading is too complex to leave to a computer program fed with a smoothed MACD in one time frame.

Right out of the gate, you make poor, false assumptions.

First, YOU are the one who suggests there are only the two
options.

You also exhibit a severely limited understanding of what
computers can be programmed to do. Maybe automatic trading
is nothing more than "a computer program fed with a smoothed
MACD in one time frame" in YOUR mind, but this is only YOUR
overly simplistic view.

autofx · 27-12-2004, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Smurf

This distinction rests on the erroneous assumption above. It still doesn't answer the question of how you're supposed to differentiate between emotions about a particular trade you took, and the emotions you experience concerning whether or not your system actually works. You may feel doubt or fear about your trading philosophy, your computerised system or a single trade. The emotions are the same as are the losses / profits.

What?!??

If anyone can decipher that paragraph...never mind!

How about this: learn to compose a cogent thought or two!